Being Happy

Happiness is a strange thing. Everyone wants it, but no one seems to agree on what it actually is. Is it a feeling, a mindset, a choice, or something else entirely? Join us as we explore the many faces of happiness, why it can be so difficult to achieve, and what it means to us personally.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Here's a little song I wrote. You might want to sing it. Note for note. Don't worry. To be happy.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of a really good podcast with Greg and Liz. And on today's episode, we are talking about being happy. Are you happy, Greg?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

That was a loaded question right out the gate.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Yeah, so it's interesting because I would say yes, because I'm doing something that I enjoy doing. And I guess that's to say Like as your career? Well, right no, in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Oh, in the moment doing this podcast. Actually, this podcast is on my list of things that make me happy.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

You know what's funny, Liz? Like, as someone who it's my job to try to make people happier, I guess. What I've learned the most in that pursuit is pursuing happiness does not make you happy. It's like this weird sort of idea where like if you're saying I want to be more happy, then you are definitely saying I'm not happy.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

If you're trying to reach something, then you don't have it yet. So if you're trying to reach happiness, then you're obviously not happy. So I I think that like to me, happiness is it bumps into you every once in a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

It just Yeah. It's fluid. It's not fixed. It's not a destination.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

It's certainly not a destination. Actually, this is off the cuff because I've used this before because the Buddhists have a great sort of thing about um chasing happiness and they say, Lizzie, you're gonna like this. This is kind of nice. If you chase butterflies, they disappear. But if you build a beautiful garden, the butterflies will come and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

It's like the happiness version of if you teach a man to fish.

unknown 1:39

Man to fish.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah. Talking about happiness is is interesting to me because it's such a it's such a complicated thing. Like every time in my life I've thought, when I have this or when this situation is gone, I I'll be happy. I get there, and maybe not so much, right? So it's like it's almost like it makes me think of like the cats that chase the little laser pointer.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

You you think that's what you're aiming at for happiness, and you get there, and then where's the happiness? Or or it's not a state of being.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

It's not a state of being. I think also you have to remember that there's two options when you want something. When you say, if I get this money, if I get this car, if I fall in love, if I get married, if I have kids, and then you get there, and either it is what you expected it to be, and you get complacent in it, or it's not what you expected it to be. But either way, once you achieve it, it's not like you're just gonna be like, oh, I'm in love and I'm happy every day of my life.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

That's a love is another one, isn't it? It's sort of like a similar thing where it's like love isn't a yeah, like I guess state of being sounds kind of a little too clinical, but like it's more of a action. It's more of a a process. Like you do happiness, you don't feel happy. You know what I mean? You do love the action, I think.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Well, I think also so many people lose out on happiness because of other things, like genetics, you know, because of your DNA, because of your mental state, because of mental illness, anxiety, where if you get everything you want, you know, like they always say, you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. You have everything, you have everything to lose. So you get um husband, kids, your perfect job, your house, and you constantly are worried you're gonna lose it.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yeah. Wow, that's interesting too. Yeah, I've actually heard this research about people who are born to really good circumstances are less likely to be happy because it's like they have to meet a higher bar or they have to achieve but if you're born to really kind of crappy circumstances, then like happiness comes easier and more incremental, and you can kind of build on it throughout your life.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's true because I'm pretty happy and I've had little to no trauma. Yeah, life's more roses for you.

unknown 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

It just keeps getting better. I mean, honestly, it doesn't keep getting better. It's pretty even killed. It's pretty much stayed steadiness, steady. I also I don't struggle with, you know, I have a little bit of anxiety, especially as I've gotten older, but generally speaking, I don't really have a lot of mental illness or anything like that. So I've been able to really appreciate good things as they're happening to me. You know, but I do the thing that technically inspired this podcast is I was thinking about it with my husband, and you know, we have three beautiful kids, but it's a pain in the ass in the morning. Getting them out the door for school is horrible. And one day I was thinking about it, and I'm like, you know what? We have one life, and we are sitting here every single morning, just losing it on everybody. Everybody in this house is just freaking out besides the baby. She's wonderful, she's happy all the time. Uh speaking of being happy, and you know, that whole, I wish you knew you were in the good old days when you were in them. And I was kind of like, you know, I really think that we need to figure out a way to appreciate being where we are because these kids aren't getting younger, we're not getting younger. Life isn't gonna get better. Even, you know, you think when you retire and whatever, then there's a whole other host of problems, physical problems, you know, health. You're losing friends.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Like part of it is about saying there there's things about my life right now that are like literally I'm living answered prayers, right? Yeah. I mean, whether you're like religious or not, like it's if there's things in my life that I have now that I would have prayed for 10 years ago and and been like, oh my god, if I had these things, I'd be so grateful. One being a BMW, no, I'm kidding. It's like Well, I mean like circumstances though, like like the relationship that I'm in, the kids, like you said, and then I would like when you were talking about that, I was like, you're like your family and stuff. It's like, is happiness you can be in a state of happiness until something happens where that takes away your happiness. And we can talk about that later, but like I I think maybe well-being is understanding that we don't have control over the actions or events, and maybe a little bit of psychological flexibility and the ability to kind of accept what happens and like how does this make me better? How can I change from this? How can I grow from like an issue instead of like not being taken out by it? That's part of it too.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah, I think about that all the time. I've thought about this so many times when I'm laying there with my kids, and I think my husband's alive and healthy, my kids are all healthy, my immediate family, you know, most of my extended family is healthy. I have my best friend, I have all of these things, and I'm like, there's some point, maybe not even in the far future, that I'm gonna look back on this and think, why didn't you appreciate this time now? And that was kind of my New Year's resolution-ish. I don't really do New Year's resolutions, but was to just stop being anxious about the future and just appreciate things as they're happening because you really don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

It's hard though, because we're not really designed that way as human beings, as far as like evolution goes. We're not designed to like sort of just be like live in the moment. Right? Like, I'm I'm good. We're kind of always looking for the other shoe to drop and always like trying to achieve that next step, whatever that is. You get a brand new car and you're and you're happy for a little while, and then you're like, this car fucking sucks.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Until your kids start putting fucking stickers on the door and shit.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's hard to gratitude is like, I think, what you're talking about. Yeah. Maybe that's good.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

And I mean, I'm trying, I'm not, it's uh definitely not happening 24-7. But I remember someone saying to me, worrying about something either wastes your time or makes it happen twice. And it's like if you worry about something, either it doesn't happen and then you just wasted all that time worrying about it, or it does happen, and then you have to deal with it, and you've already been worrying about it. So I kind of was like, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Well, that's ep epictetus. It's a very stoic sort of thing. It's it's like he says something like, suffer before it's necessary, suffer more than necessary, right? So, like, we all do that. Our like sort of anxieties are are based on thoughts and images and beliefs about things that probably may not ever happen. And we spend so much time doing that. I guess what you're saying is like that kind of lame thing that people say, like be present.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, be present, or just try not to worry about things that aren't like the amount of times I've worried about Tucker dying. Yeah, I'm like, I don't even have the password for this, or I don't know who to contact to even pay this bill or whatever. And I'm like, why am I worrying about this? Like it maybe it'll happen, but at that time, like you'll figure it out. I figured out everything else in my life, but it's just what a stupid thing to spend my time, waste my time. He's not sick, there's no health problems, there's no reason to worry about it at this point.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

But no, and and and it's like if you're you're worrying about you're suffering from this thing that hasn't happened, and instead of enjoying the thing that is there right in front of you, exactly, exactly. Enjoying that time. I guess that's part of happiness.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, I mean, I would say, let's do the actual definition of happiness. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm very could you could you have if someone said to you what's happiness, would you what would you say? Um, I kind of think it's like a state of like a being being happy, um a state of being satisfied, maybe. But then is happiness contentment? See, that's I don't think so. You know, so I looked up the definition, and I have to be honest, it was really hard to find one specific. I don't have like a dictionary, so I just googled it, and yeah, there were all these different things, and a couple of them, even you know, chat GPT was like, listen, this is a tough thing to pin down.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

This is a tough thing, I have to admit.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

I'm a computer and even I'm struggling. So there were two that I found, or three that I found that made the most sense. Let's hear it. The current experience of feeling an emotion such as pleasure or joy, the experience of joy, contentment, or positive well-being combined with a sense that one's life is good, meaningful, and worthwhile. It's not really a technical definition, and then a feeling of contentment. But I think a lot of people confuse contentment and boredom.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Contentment is like more something sort of more manageable and more like it's more like acceptance-based, I think. Yeah. It's like these things are in my life. I I feel all right.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Contentment's Yeah, like I wouldn't, if somebody was like, Oh, I'm content with my life, I'd be like, Oh, are you gonna like go have an affair? Like, I wouldn't be like, Oh, you're you're doing great, you know. You're just kind of like, well, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

I'll tell you what's interesting about those definitions though. Like, like you mentioned things like joy, pleasure, comfort, kind of, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, it's pleasure happiness though.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yeah, so but you you gotta you can't use the word to define it.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

No, I mean like is pleasure happiness.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Maybe like, but I I think that like pleasure kind of maybe not a great word. It's kind of like we're thinking of something.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Because I think you can have pleasure, like say you're having an affair, you know? I don't know why I keep bringing up having an affair. I'm not having a pleasure a lot.

unknown 10:48

I know.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

I you could have an affair and be experiencing pleasure but feel terrible about it.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, see, that's what I'm saying. Because hypothetically speaking, you the th the issue is so I think like the key to happiness here is the where where people get it wrong is like so pleasure, we'll use that word again, joy, ease, comfort, like all the things you associate with happiness, if you try to pursue those specific feelings, you will end up unhappy.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

So it's not like you so that's what I'm kind of saying in the beginning. Like, you can't like try to You can't chase happiness. You can't chase it, right? Like, so you have to do something, and like that. So there's a good word there, meaningful in one of those definitions. So if you're doing something that's meaningful to you, that's values-based, so not having an affair, doing something that's like good with your values, happiness will bump into you every once in a while while you're doing something meaningful to you, living like a values-based life. It's actually great. This is actually good that we're talking about this because it's reminding me of I read this book called The Pursuit of Happiness, ironically.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

The Will Smith movie?

SPEAKER_02 11:49

No, no, it was about it was about what the founding fathers were reading when they were writing like the Declaration of Independence, like Cicero and Sherlock and not the Will Smith movie. No, no, but what what the book was trying to get across was they weren't talking about happiness the way we think of happiness. They were talking about it's trying to do good versus feel good. And that's what happiness is the the opportunity to do good, the opportunity to chase the things that are meaningful to you, because people didn't have that. And so now, like we've sort of constructed this thing where like we should pursue happiness. It's like, no, no, no, you should do what is good, not what feels good. And if you do what is good, then you will feel good, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

It's almost like you have to make sacrifices and do things that you aren't going to enjoy to be happy. Like the Totally, you know, it's like they say the real lessons were the people we met along the way.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Like I couldn't agree with that. You should be a therapist because you're hitting on something that's like so sort of paradoxical, but it's true. You need to sort of suffer to be happy.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

But the difference is so so life, I I hate to say this as a podcast about happiness, but like life is suffering, life is pain, life is all those things. But if you choose your suffering, you can be happy. So like you go to the gym, I go to the gym. That's not fun. We choose that suffering because if you go to the gym, you're gonna suffer. And if you don't go to the gym, you're gonna suffer.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Well, be I go to the gym and I watch my TV shows on the treadmill for 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

So I'm so you're not but you're made happiness. Like in you're choosing a good suffering. Yeah. And what about being in a relationship? Like being in a relationship is suffering. Yeah. But not being in a relationship is suffering.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Well, I don't know. I don't think that being in a relationship is suffering. I mean, I think if Tucker's in a bad mood in the morning, sometimes I'm like, this fucking ass.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Listen, let me tell you something. But also being in a relationship is fucking hard. No?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

It's I mean, it's not always easy, but the hard is different if you're not like Tucker and I were best friends before we started dating. Yeah. So he was my favorite person to hang out with before that. So when we started dating, it was like there wasn't I we we don't have those like fundamental issues that you buttheads on 24-7. You know what I mean? And I think that's where it gets hard when you have two very different people. He's also very, very laid back and lets me do it and let me kind of do what I want. So while yes, we definitely fight and we definitely have issues. I would never like say that we don't. I don't know. I think suffering is an is an aggressive word.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

It's an aggressive word. I oh I get that so much. I just don't know if I know a different one to sort of describe what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Like I get annoyed. I wouldn't say like suffer when he's being a dick in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Well, well, you're taking it, but also like to be to be happy, you have to take risks at everything. Like you have to put put you have to be completely vulnerable and put everything on the line. Like you you have this happy life at the risk that you can lose the things that are making you happy. So it's like it is a vulnerable place to be.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, and I also think that my bar is 70-30, 70% happy, 30% stressed out, whatever. That's a good day. I'm happy with that. I don't need to be 100% happy. And I think people tend to get really bogged down with little things like somebody cuts you off and you just spiral out and let it ruin your day. Sometimes I'm I'm looking at people, you know, I love a Facebook comment section, and I'm like, you're honestly letting this news article ruin your whole day. I'm sure you've been seeing the Summer House situation with Amanda and West. No, I've definitely Okay, so long story short, two of the people are dating, whatever. Like, she's getting divorced, he dated someone else on the show that was best friends with the girl. So it's like a whole thing. I it's reality TV. I'm having a time with it. There's great memes. Like, I feel bad for the girl that was kind of screwed over a little bit, but some of these people, I'm like, do we need to start sending out wellness checks to some of these Bravo fans? Like, yeah, they're literally letting these two people, they will never meet, and this doesn't affect your life at all. And you're letting them ruin your whole entire day. And I think people do this all the time, where it's like, I'm like, okay, like it's funny to talk about certain things, but at the end of the day, it doesn't affect me at all. And I think that is where a lot of people become unhappy because they're letting things outside of their control that have nothing to do with them just spiral out.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

So I think that you've come upon it. And I like honestly, like the meaning and and the meaning of life meaning. So so look, what you're basically saying there is I I've heard said or I've read um, like the focus of your attention drives your mood.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

But like when you say meaningful, I'm like like when you were saying meaningful in that, like kind of like really stuck with me because it's like, okay, well, what does meaningful mean exactly? And then as you're talking about people getting upset about freaking whatever this Bravo shit um in politics, both guilty in the past. Yeah. Big time. Big time.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I mean, politics is a little bit different because it does kind of affect your everyday life.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Well, can you control any of it? So so here's here's the thing that I'm uh here's what I think to be able to live a meaningful life is to pay attention to the right sort of things.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

That's what I think it is. Because if you had 24 hours left to live, let's not, because you were talking about death a lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

You're not Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Well, you kind of were about other people, not you. But like, and you feel fine apparently. I'm always worried, I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Um yeah, but if you die, then like you're off the hook.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Well, if I die, like, Dad, are you gonna like die? And I'm like, God, I hope not.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. I mean, yeah, well, this is the thing, also. Yeah. Puts a lot of pressure on you. I am you can't say no. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

No. I'm like, not for a while. Hopefully.

unknown 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Hopefully. Um, wait, you see, now where am I going? Oh, yeah. So, like the the focus of your tensionizing mood, paying attention to the right sorts of things. If you were going to die, if you had 24 hours left to live and you couldn't tell anyone, you couldn't tell your family, right? Like, what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I couldn't tell my family. I would start writing letters to my children. I would probably go through and delete my DoorDash history because I don't want Tucker to know how much money I've spent on DoorDash in a secret. No, listen, this is it wouldn't be like my search history on the computer, it would be my DoorDash. He's like, you spent $27 on a BLT.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Like, yeah, that's how much it costs now. Like everything on DoorDash is $200.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Are you out of your mind?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

But what you're talking about here is like your world just got really small because it's 24 hours, and so your world just got really meaningful. So it's like, if I if I had 24 hours left to live, now your world has just become Tucker and the kids. And if you want to be happy, you have to pay your most attention to those things that are the most meaningful things in your life. And we forget, like it's like being I I I think like maybe the key to happiness is remembering you're going to die.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah. Without like thinking about dying, though. No, but if you're that's not gonna make it happy, forget to live, right? Yeah. So like and that's kind of what I was thinking about when I was thinking about this podcast. Like, we only have this one life, like this is it. And if we're gonna spend it fighting every day or getting upset about our kids because they don't want to put their shoes on in time or whatever, I mean there's one thing I really, really despise the don't blink, the like you're gonna miss this, like all of that thing that they do to parents. I hate that because I think that it's really cruel and unnecessary because you can't stop time, you know. Like these kids are growing up. And as much as I love Remy's eight months, she's almost eight months right now, which is like an incredible age. You know, she's so cute, she's so funny, she's not moving much yet, so I don't have to worry about her. I can put her on the bed and I don't have to worry about her like crawling off. But that also, you know, saying to somebody like, don't blink, you're gonna miss this, you're they're getting older. It's like all you're doing is giving people anxiety, and you're not allowing parents to live in these moments. And I think that's why I'm enjoying having her so much because I know that she's gonna get older and I see how fast it happens, but I also know like there's nothing I can do about it. So am I gonna spend all this time with her being sad every day she's getting older?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, and it makes you do this weird thing where you're like trying to have moments.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, you're like, don't blink. I'm just like staring at her.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Yeah, let's have a moment. Like, was that good? Is that a core memory? Like, I know I try like I try to do it with my with my kids too. It's like try to do things that you know they're gonna like, try to like have fun with them, try to just be, you know, and and then like whatever. If there's a moment, there's a moment. But I hate that stuff too because it's like because it's like I have to work, I have to do all these things. Yeah, like what do you mean don't blink?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

I yeah, I'm I'm I have to blink. I gotta blink. It's how my eyes work. Um, but I and I think also that's another thing you have to remember. Like, Dylan and I, what did we do the other day? We went to the library and they had a scavenger hunt there, and we left, and she was like, This was one of the best days. And it's like we were just at the library doing a free scavenger hunt, and I think that that was a memory for her.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Maybe it had a core memory, maybe not. I think that that's a good insight because look, I remember my father took me to one movie. Actually, we went to see Ninja Turtles one and The Little Mermaid the same day. We never went to go see another movie again.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Did you sneak in? I no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Maybe no one, I mean, yeah.

unknown 21:14

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

But like you go back out and pay, that would be great.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

But it wasn't it's not like these crazy things, it's not like that vacation or this. It's sometimes it's just like I remember when I was a kid, I used to get such a kick out of when adults would come outside and like play like two-hand touch football with like us kids, or it'd be like kids and adults like kind of mixing it up. And I used to think that was so cool. And so I try to do that a lot with the kids, yeah. Because like those little moments, whether when we think it's just it's it's even just like maybe 10 15 minutes, yeah. Like of just effort and presence, and you know, that's all they really need, and that's what they remember.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah, no, I did for Christmas, I blew up balloons. I just like got a bunch of balloons and blew them up. And I read something that was like, you don't need a ton of presents, you need balloons. And I was like, It's so true because I don't. Buy my kids a ton of Christmas presents. You know, they get one really expensive thing, one medium it, but I don't buy them a million presents, so they're not gonna come out and have a huge thing. But balloons are perfect because they're cheap and they're easy, and you just like have a bunch of balloons out. They look great, you know, you come down, it's exciting. And Dylan just said the other day, she was like, Can we please have balloons for Easter? I was like, What do you want to do with them? She's like, just have them there. And I was like, Oh my god, like that was a core memory for her. It took me five minutes and it was a dollar fifty at the family dollar. But that's the things that matter, and they don't care. You know, how many times have you talked to somebody who took their kid to Disney and it sucked because you're trying, you're like, this is so important that this is a great memory.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah, then what do you do with the kids when you when you do? And I'm guilty of like trying, literally being like, All right, we gotta get them more than we did last year. It's like, what did that even mean? Because what a way to kind of like always like more is happier.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I know, especially now Easter is tomorrow, and I feel like Easter has just become a second Christmas. Yeah, like Tucker's so funny. Tucker's so funny. That's exactly what he's he's just like you. He's like, you know, when I was growing up, I got one butt one chocolate bunny and that's it. And I'm like, I mean, I didn't go crazy. I got him each a pair of sandals. We're going on vacation in a couple weeks. I got him each pair of sandals, I got him, you know, whatever, uh, books and an activity book. Like it's nothing, I didn't spend a ton of money, but it's way more than he would ever expect. I'm like, yeah, but we're we're not your parents. Like, we we're doing other things, you know, but I'm also buying them things that will keep them from being on electronics.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

But isn't having less and and being able to be happy with less a better make you better suited to be happier?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Also, you can't just like throw loose candy, opened candy, into a basket like our parents did. That's disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

But like, but but here's the thing like Tosh does the same thing where it's like, I'm seeing like give cards to Chipotle hanging around. I'm like, what's that? And he's like, that goes in the Easter basket. I'm like, there's a basket of this kind of stuff? Like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

It was it was like what how I mean is that for Jack though, because like you know, he's a teenager. He means he's a teenager.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yeah, like so he gets he gets like socks, and like the other one gets like makeup, and the and the boys are getting like nerf guns and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, I'm hosting Easter and I'm having both sides of the family. So I'm having my mom's my mom and some of her sisters, and then I'm having some of my dad's relatives. My dad's not coming, he's in Florida, but some of that side too. So I'm like, is this gonna be awkward? So I made games and I made a saran wrap ball. Have you ever heard of this?

SPEAKER_02 24:33

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Okay, so you put something in the center, you wrap saran wrap around in it, and then you keep adding stuff and like adding more layers of saran wrap, and then the people have to try to open it and it's on a timer, and then you pass it. And if I got like dollar scratch tickets and stuff like that, this is really this is a lot, but in the vein of trying to make sure that there's no awkward conversation.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah. Let's keep them wrapped up, unwrapping.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

I got a bingo, an Easter bingo kit.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

It's gonna be fun at your place, huh?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

I know it is gonna be fun. Um isn't it supposed to be kind of sad?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Oh no, it's good, it's like risen.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

I saw a thing yesterday that it was like Jesus. He was like, So, do you guys like have anything to represent me dying? And they were like, Yeah, like he's like, What is it, like sad Friday, tragic Friday? They were like, um, it's it's good Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Which I never, I never understood.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah, but he had to die, right? I don't know. I don't I don't really know the logistics. I never paid that much attention in church, but yeah, I think it's a little off topic, but I do think that like it is, it is and it isn't.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I'll tell you what. But I don't know. I I think that like religions have been a source of happiness for people throughout sort of like this sort of objective morality, something that you could work towards.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

I think religion gives people safety. I don't know about happiness. I mean, have you ever been to the Catholic church? All they do is make you feel bad about yourself. Catholic guilt is a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Yeah, trust me, I know. I grew up still technically Catholic.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

I'm still like nervous I'm going to hell, even though I haven't been which I haven't been to church in decades right now, it's making me a little unclear. Should I be talking about Jesus memes? Um, so how do you think that happiness has changed as you've aged? I wrote out some things that I think if you want me to go first and you can riff off of that.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Yeah, I I mean, yeah. So why don't you let me know what you said?

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Okay, so happiness as a kid, I think was feeling safe, feeling loved. There was so much to do with so little. I think that's also technically for us because we didn't have all of the bells and whistles that a lot of kids have today. But you know, you could make it. You know, you could go out into what?

SPEAKER_02 26:42

You had some bells and whistles in that mansion.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

I did have some bells and whistles, but still, I mean, you know, my summer vacation was going to my grandmother's beach house and wandering around with a stick, you know. That sounds so no it's at it's at coal farm. It was like a little, you know, it's on the bay.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, you weren't going to Iggy's for your vacation. No.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

I was going to the what's what was the wiener place on post? Timmy's. We were going there. That was but no, it trust me, my grandfather grew up in the depression. He was not shelling out for a fancy beach house. But that's what I did with my summers. I would go there and we would wander around, we'd go to the beach, we go to the dock, whatever. But there's a lot of possibilities, you know, and you can find happiness with so little as a kid. And then as you're a young adult, you're kind of growing into independence. But I think happiness is having a little bit of that, but not too much. You know, you still have the safety net and you're still kind of able to get help from your parents, and there's still a lot of possibility. And I think this is why happiness in midlife is tougher because, like we were talking about, you either have most of the things that you wanted or you don't, and you realize that there's a good chance you're never gonna get them. And there's just so much less possibility. So, my question is do you think that the absence of possibility is what makes so many people unhappy? Like, is possibility happiness kind of?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Like potential?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Potential, not knowing.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

So that very thing that yes, it's a piece of it. I think we're talking about a lot of different pieces here. Because I I will often talk to people about the aquarium. I I'll bring that up all the time because I'll I'll ask like patients um in like a group setting. Like, would you guys rather be born in the aquarium or born to the ocean?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

And you know, you get an ex a fish or a human being?

SPEAKER_02 28:34

As a whale.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Because as a human being, the aquarium, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, but as a fish, yeah, right? You would rather be you don't know any better. Most people would rather be born to the ocean. And the reason and and so the only reason why I bring that up is because like people are generally anxious because of uncertainty. That's like sort of the underlying I think I'd be an aquarium.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

I think I'd I'd thrive. No, I I don't think I don't want to be born in the ocean.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Well, you've taken away potential and possibility.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah, but I I have security. I have somebody feeding me every day.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Remember that? Security's so so as you get older, maybe happiness changes in that security. So for me, happiness has changed a little bit. Like as it used to be, happiness for me was an opportunity to do something difficult, like a call to adventure. Like that was happiness for me, like doing something, like having to use my brain and my body and all these, like you know, the unknown in fear and all that stuff is all part of it. And now it's basically just like I wanna be appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah. Well, you do a lot for other people, so you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

And then when you're not when you're not appreciated, you kind of feel like crap.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, I know. Like when I make dinner and nobody eats it. It feels like crap. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Or you make dinner and like they just let it get cold and you're like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

I know. My my kids, I have to come in and be like, are you gonna eat that? I made fish the other night. You would have thought I wasn't made fucking gruel. God forbid. I put covered in Ritz crackers and butter and like nobody. That's it. Sounds awesome, right? Remy ate it. Remy liked it. So, you know, at least I got it.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

So less makes you happy when you're on a kid when you're a kid, maybe it's easier to be happy when you're a kid. Why? Youth is wasted on the young, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

You don't know. If you could go back now and relive a day as a child, I'm sure you would be over the moon. When you were that child, you were probably just like, oh, this is so boring.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

It's I think like when you get older, you get those limiting beliefs. Like you start to realize there's things that you can't do in it.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yes, now that I'm in my 40s, and it's like, I'm never gonna go on the bachelor, and I don't want to go on the bachelor's.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

I'm never gonna be a navy SEAL. My son's going to the Navy, he's like signed up and everything, Jack. And I'm kind of like jealous.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, but you were in the Navy.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Oh, you're excited that like he's that again.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah, yeah. It's weird. But it was hard. I mean, that was really hard, and that's what made it good. Yeah, in the long run, but when you were in it, I'm sure there were days that you were like, this is really fucking tough.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

And so, like, that's what I'm talking about, like seeking like difficulty. Like, I see, like, and it's when he he's too young to understand that he's got a great opportunity here, and it's probably just gonna be hard, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, yeah. Especially for kids this day and age, because everything's handed to you, you know. The amount of time he's gonna have to just like sit around. Do you like sit around and stare at a wall sometimes? Oh, so much sitting around staring at the wall.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

It's like, yeah, being bored, that's something they're not capable of doing.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

No, no, exactly. I say this all the time when people ask about the summer camp that my kids go to, because it's just like the town camp, it's in a field, you know, there's a playground and some tennis courts and whatever, but it's it's just a field. And I'm like, listen, they get bored. I think it that's great because there's so few opportunities for them to get bored. And I also don't have to deal with it because they're at camp. So, like, if they're bored all day and complaining, which they don't actually, they do a lot of stuff there and they actually really like it and always want to go back. It's not my problem. It's like on the bus. All these people, so many of their friends have cell phones and they give them to them on the bus, which their school has zero cell service, so you can't even use it at the school. And I'm like, why would I give my kids don't have cell phones, but I'm like, why would I give them something like that when I'm not on the bus with them? I don't care if you're bored. Like, no, this is a great opportunity for that.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

And that's how you become creative. Like when you're bored, that's when you get these, you make a game with a couple sticks or something. Like we like, you know. I mean, that's it happens that my kids do that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

When I take electronics away from my kids when they've been like during vacations, when they've been on it for so long, the first 30 to 40 minutes, they're like, and then they're doing a fashion show with the baby, or they're making a fort, or they're having a cooking contest. You know, they come up with stuff, but you don't make kids do that anymore. And that's why they have such a hard time being happy to bring it back to the topic.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yes, you're absolutely right. So, wait, what is that then? Like, so you it's difficult to be happy if you're always sort of entertained.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yeah, if everything's done for you. They say that's like with baby toys and like when they're growing up and toddlers, that you don't want toys that play for the baby. Like you don't want toys that do all the stuff. You want the toy to be something that the baby has to play with and make work.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah, and like, or or like where when's the last time you heard it's a little bit of a vrum vrum from someone?

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Me when I'm feeding Remy.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Okay, good, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Like just pushing that truck around it. It's like, come on. That's why it's fun to have a baby and like do all this stuff all over again because it really brings you back down to like the basics. But what do you think takes away happiness?

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Well, I think we kind of covered that when I I think what takes away happiness is trying to seek the results of happiness.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yes. Without I also have a a list of things that so overthinking and worrying, which we kind of touched upon, holding on to grudges and holding on to things.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

I would say paying attention to the wrong kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yep, paying attention to the wrong kinds of things, seeking validation from others instead of having it in yourself.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Oh shit, I do that. I definitely need that.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Which I think that if you're seeking validation from somebody, they're probably not going to give you the kind of validation you want. Because the people that you really need the validation from will give it to you without you having to like work for it. I agree with that. And then social media, which I mean, that's a whole that's a whole different beast. We'll tackle that in a whole separate episode. And neglecting self-care. The quote I wrote last night, you do you because nobody else is going to.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Ooh. I've heard that one. So what about this? Like, what about Aristotle? Like, he talks about like being like you are what you do repeatedly. But then he kind of like breaks that down a little bit more. Like, if you want to be depressed, you have to do depressed things. If you want to be fit, you can't just say I'm fit, you have to do fit things. If you want to be happy, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, unless you're like in your 40s, and then you can do fit things and still not be fit. Isn't that something?

unknown 35:04

Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 35:06

I go to the gym every fucking day.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

I go to the gym all the time. I'm like, man, this is not the bounce back that it was when I was 30.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

I have this young, I have this young friend at the gym. He's like ripped and and he'll always be like, You look good, and I'll always be like, dude, fuck you. It's like because he like he like shreds during the summer and he gets like bulks. I'm like, dude, I can't try and bulk.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

I don't want to do the things I would have to do to be like ripped as a woman in my forties. I do those things and am not ripped. Yeah, I know. That's a hard thing. It's the food. It's the food. You know, it's abs are made in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Abs are made in the kitchen. I think that's Aristotle too.

unknown 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Um, all right, let's wrap this up. So what what are the things that make you happy?

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Uh honestly, I like I have a whole like threshold of for happiness. It's funny, when you were saying having a kid is cool because you get to do those things all over again and like see it through, see the joy through their eyes.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

You're like, I'm probably gonna go have a fifth kid.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah, I dude. Like what as lame as lame as that is, like, Christmas and Halloween and and like watching them get excited for it makes me excited for it all over again. It's almost like I don't know. That that's like really something that makes me happy is is when my I know my kids are happy, I'm happy. Yeah. And that's it, I guess that's like a beautiful thing about getting it.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

There's nothing else. Shit. Do you want to hear my list?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah. I so my first one, my kids, my family, blah blah blah. Like I think don't blank them with it, whatever. Uh having Remy actually has been a whole different thing because like she's brought almost nothing but joy. There is a she's a great baby, like she's happy, she's easy, you know. She doesn't sleep that great without me, but you know, you can't win them all. Um, but it it's been it's made me see Tucker as like a father who's just like you know, with your older kids, you're yelling at them all the time, like there's so much stress, like whatever. With a baby, like it's just love and it's fun. Seeing the older kids with her has been really fun. So, like that, she's just brought a whole new dimension to my family.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Um, talking to my best friend Marge in the morning, we talk five days a week for 20 to 45 minutes every morning. We just shoot the shit. That makes me really happy. Planning things and having stuff to do. Like, I love an activity, I love an event to plan. Like I'm planning Easter, and after this, I'm gonna go and bake a cake and blow. I love having like something to look forward to or to plan.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

That's oh my god. All right, so that's I and I think if if by saying that you've kind of hit the last one, we've talked about a lot of different sort of categories of wellness, I'll call them, because I'm a therapist. And um I I think that the always having something to work towards, having something out in front of you is probably one of the most important things too. Like something that you believe in, something that's enabled you to like.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Or just to look or just to look forward to. Like I have five concerts that I've already bought tickets for this summer.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

And I'll tell you what, it and it's not always the event that's like the the important thing, it's it's the pursuit of it. It's yeah, leading up to it.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

And like the like getting a little bit daydrunk with my husband after being pregnant all last summer.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Because we say you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Like just that little little tiny bit of day drunk where you just get a nice buzz.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

I haven't drank in forever. Um that used to make me happy.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't anymore. I've gotten to a point where like I'm really trying to only drink if there's a reason, like going to a concert.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

But I think also I drink on Halloween night when I take the kids trick or treating like a good dad. And I and I I on Christmas Eve because we have a party. And that's basically it.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

That's it. Twice a year. Wow. I'll have a cocktail here and there, but I mean I'm breastfeeding right now, so it's pretty limited. But yeah, I mean it just gives me anxiety. I wake up at 3 a.m. and I'm like rethinking my entire life. Like, what app on the TV did I sign up for so I could watch this movie? Starting to worry about that. I see stuff come out of my account all the time, and I'm like, I have Apple, it's like Apple tragedy. I'm like, I don't even, I don't even look. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

And you know they you know how they get you because it's always like it's always like just that number where you're like fuck it.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

It's like 499, like 999. I'm like, whatever, I don't even care. Like, who cares at this point?

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Because otherwise you have to like go dig it and try to catch it, like, forget it.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

It's impossible. No. And then the last thing on my list that makes me happy is doing this podcast. Oh yeah, me too. You know, me too. I think a lot of people have hobbies that are not self-centered, but like it's just for you, like knitting or whatever. And I think it's fun that we have a hobby that other people can enjoy too.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

And not only that, it's like keeps this. Oh, there's something there's something about nostalgia, maybe there's something about like relationships. Like we've I've known you, like you're a familiar face in my life like for decades. Yeah. So it's like cool to have that. You know what I mean? That that makes me happy to see you. It makes me happy to see John Eric. It makes me happy to see Pete. It makes me happy to see these people that I'm still friends with. And it's important to keep the friends.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

No, it is, especially friends that you had a long time ago, because who would I talk shit about like when something happens to someone I went to high school with if I don't have my best friend, you know? I don't know what people do who like have all friends.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Marge were like best friends in high school.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

That was like you and No, we weren't. She was two years behind me. We became best friends in 2008, but we went to high school together, so we know all the same people.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Yeah. Well, well, I'm Pete's best friend.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Isn't it ironic that like every person that I know married somebody they went to either our high school or the other high school in Warwick?

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Well, I made I did I made that mistake, but then I fixed that.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

You made it double time.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

I did it twice, yeah. You did it twice. Where is Natasha from? Natasha's outside of this whole thing. So she's like north Lincoln. She grew up in Lincoln.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Oh wow, that's crazy. No, that's like one of those places when I used to like work at the bar and like I'd card someone in Arizona and it'd be a Rhode Island ID, and I'd be like, oh my god, and maybe like, oh, when socket, I'd be like, oh, yeah, I don't know, where is that?

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah, you might as well be from a different planet because we didn't cross paths. Her high school friends, not one of them. And not only that, I not only am I like geographically distant being a Rhode Islander, but the age difference has been helpful too.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

There's no connection.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yeah, there's no connection, but also like do you say things and she's like, What?

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Oh, yeah, like yeah, shows that were like what I was watching. She like when she was a kid, she was watching shows almost almost like Jack was watching, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Is she almost closer in age to she's almost the exact same amount of difference between her and Jack as between her and you, right? What is she 10 years? Yeah, 10 years with you and what 12 years with Jack? Now, how old is she? She's like 34, right? 33, 33.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

So, all right, so she if she's 10 years, then well, yeah, she's she wouldn't have been able to have Jack, or she'd be really young. Yeah, but still, I don't know. Because Jack's 18.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yeah, so she's 14. She's 14 years, right? What is she, 32? 33? Don't put me on the spot like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

You don't know how old she's. I don't know exactly. Listen, here's the thing about that though. Ask me my ask me my mom's birthday. I can't tell you.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

I'm I'm struggling with Remy. I don't know her name, I don't know her birthday.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Then admit to the doctors, and they've been like, date of birth, and I've been like, well, hold up. Like, I got I got the I got the date.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

That's good though. I was talking to telling someone, I was like, you know, I've never paid the mortgage, but Tucker couldn't take him to a doctor's appointment to save my name. I'm like, do you even know where their doctor is?

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Like, what's his teacher's name? And I'm like, oh, you got me like, did you abduct this kid?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

I know. No, it's funny. Crosby struggled in school with like behavior, so I know all of his teachers. Dylan has never gotten in trouble once in the entire time she's been in school. Like, not one time. I couldn't tell you a single one of her teachers' names because I've never talked to him. I don't get emails from him.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

And I'll tell you what, I know his teachers' names. And uh yeah, we know that. Uh Jack was like that. Jack never got, never had to hear a word. Never even had to tell Jack to do homework. Never had to look at a report.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Crosby, that's how he is now. Now that he's a little more mature, he has a teacher this year too who like really is good with it and like likes him and like thinks he's funny and doesn't like get annoyed when he like speaks out. And that I couldn't even tell you what a difference it makes. What a difference. Those teachers, anyways. All right, speaking of my children, I gotta get back to them. They're watching my baby right now. Okay, all right. I was like, just calm down if anyone like really needs me.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

But so talk's like working like how many hours a day?

SPEAKER_00 43:52

He goes in around nine for nine and he comes home around 1:30. In the morning? In the morning, yeah. What's he doing? Taxes. And he's like far behind where he was last year, too. So he like has to work. But that means he's got more people, right? I'll be like, oh, two weeks till tax season's over. He's like, don't say that. That gives me anxiety. Well, I was working for him, but I can't because I have the baby, so yeah, it's tough. All right, well, this was great. I feel happy having talked about this. Yeah, this is great. Yeah, but I think we figured it out. Yeah. Okay. More or less. All right. And we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Because I'm happy I'm alone if you feel like a room without a room.